Sophocles (1975) Oedipus Rex in The Theban Plays. Penguin Books Limited: 22 - 162.. Soyinka, Wole (1973). The Bacchae of Euripides. London: Eyre Methuen. The Strong Breed. Ibadan: Orisun Acting Editions. QUINE'S NATURALIZED EPISTEMOLOGY: A CRITIQUE. Oedipus Rex: This is the most popular of Sophocles' plays, and indeed, the foremost classical tragedy. The king of Thebes as a reward for rescuing the city from the sphinx by answering correctly the riddle it had used in tormenting the. Duncan and Malcolm are prominent in the old books on Scottish history. Aeschylus lived during the glorious period of the Persian Wars (490-89 BC and. 480-79 BC) when the invading Persians were defeated. Seven against Thebes; Sophocles' Ajax, Electra and Oedipus Tyrannus; and Euripides'. McDonald and J. Michael Walton (London: Nick Hern Books 2007).
The Three Theban Pays are the absolute pillar stone of ancient Greek drama, and in my opinion they contain two of the best plays ever written: Oedipus the King and Antigone. Oedipus the King- because sometimes life's a real bitch. Fate is unavoidable in ancient Greek Tragedy. Trying to avoid it will only lead to it, and doing nothing will lead you there too.
So if a God tells you that you will die at the hands of your son, and that he will then go on to steal your wife, you’d best do nothin The Three Theban Pays are the absolute pillar stone of ancient Greek drama, and in my opinion they contain two of the best plays ever written: Oedipus the King and Antigone. Oedipus the King- because sometimes life's a real bitch. Fate is unavoidable in ancient Greek Tragedy.
Trying to avoid it will only lead to it, and doing nothing will lead you there too. So if a God tells you that you will die at the hands of your son, and that he will then go on to steal your wife, you’d best do nothing because it’s going to happen anyway. Any preventative action you take will only lead to the same ending. So, you’re pretty much screwed. You might as well lie down and accept it.
The God's are mean. But, nope, if you’re like the King of Thebes you’ll leave your infant son for dead instead. Poor Oedipus. He really didn’t have much chance in life. He could do nothing to intervene with his own destiny, mainly because his tragic flaw is his lack of awareness about his true origins.
He hears a rumour of the prophecy told to his farther, so he endeavours to stay away from him. But, in doing so he is pushed ever closer to his real farther. That’s the problem with being abandoned at birth; you just don’t know who is who in the world! There’s some irony in this somewhere. Indeed, it suggests that no free will exists at all because any exertions of the supposed free will lead to the predetermined fate. So every action has been accounted for already.
The intended audience may have been aware of these powers but Oedipus and his farther were hapless in their wake. They had to both learn the hard way. Oedipus had to recognise it, and in the process he shattered his life: it made him tear out his very eyes. Now that’s real grief. There’s no wonder Aristotle made this his model for the perfect play because this is masterful.
Aristotle’s theory can be used to assist the reader in understanding how the plot contributes to the tragedy. I couldn’t have read tragedy without it. The tragedy is created, in part, by the complexity of its plot which leads towards the catharsis. According to Aristotle’s Poetics the complexity of the plot is established through reversal, recognition and suffering.
A simple plot will only establish one of these; therefore, it will have a limited catharsis. The reversal (peritpeteia) is the change of a state of affairs to its opposite, such as the reversal of Oedipus’ identity. The recognition (anaghorsis) is achieved through the acquiring of knowledge, like the knowledge Oedipus gains of his birth.
Aristotle argues that an effective plot has its anaghorisis bound up with the peritpeteia. This is because it, “carries with it pity or fear” such as these following lines: 'O god- All come true, all busting to light! O light- now let me look my last on you!
I stand revealed at last-” (Lines 1305-9) I hope I didn’t lose anyone or bore them to death with my summary of Poetics. The structure is the key; it is everything in delivering the plot. If, in the cathartic moment, the action can evoke suffering through a combination of a reversal of circumstances during a brutally stark recognition, then the ultimate delivery of pity and fear will be achieved. Such is the case with Oedipus. Oedipus’s hamartia, his tragic flaw at the core of his being, is his ignorance, and when the veil is lifted he realises the tragedy of the situation; he realises all too late that fate is unshakable and unconquerable.
He has unknowingly committed incest with his mother and murdered his farther, so, like I said, life is a real bitch. Oedipus at Colonus Oedipus has been cursed by fate. After unwittingly killing his farther and marrying his own mother, he was cast out of his own land: he was banished by fate. He is now blind, old and has but only one wish: death.
His sister-daughters (children born of incest with his mother) wish to help in this but his son-brothers want him to return to the land of Thebes alive and well. They have heard a new prophecy concerning his fate, and they have grown to fear it. However, as readers of Oedipus the King learnt, trying to change fate only leads to destiny changing the path; ultimately, the destination will always remain the same: there is no escape. Oedipus is resigned to let the wind take him wherever it may go. He has learnt that he has no power.
His past remerges, a dangerous past that the world considers criminal. It is one he tried to avoid, but, again, he could never escape from it. King Creon, Oedipus’ taciturn brother in law is especially angry at Oedipus for the death of Jocasta hurt him severely. It's very easy to judge others in such a situation, but as Oedipus retorts: 'One thing, answer me just one thing. If, here and now, a man strode up to kill you, you, you self-righteous --- what would you do? Investigate whether the murderer were your farther or deal with him straight off? Well I know, as you love your life, you’d pay the killer back, not hunt around for justification.
' As a sequel to Oedipus the King and a prequel to Antigone this play is very much the middle of The Three Theban Plays. Oddly, it seems to be read far less than the other two plays, which I think is a bit of a shame. Granted, it lacks the autonomy of the others, but it is just as important in understanding the trilogy. And this is the crux of the play; it is Oedipus’ moment to defend himself, and give voice to his actions which he was not responsible for.
At the same time, the plot foreshadows and leads straight into Antigone and explains much about King Creon's choices. In terms of action- I speak of the technical connotations of the word as defined by Aristotle in Poetics- the play is lacking. There is very little in the way of tragic elements. It was only performed after Sophocles’ death when the glory days of Athens had set. The play was a reminder to its audiences of what had been lost, Oedipus served as a reminder of an age gone by, one that would never return.
Reading the play today, I see the same sense of departure. This line for example as spoke by the Chorus: “Then it’s the end of Athens, Athens is no more!'
I love reading Ancient Greek drama; it is so well crafted; it is straightforward yet complex; it is sophisticated yet bold and bloody. Sort of odd really when considering the fact that all deaths were off stage, but you still get the idea from it. I’d love see some modern reproductions of it live. Antigone Antigone is a real heroine; she stands up for what she believes in. She was faced with a strong dilemma. The law of man, the word of her uncle the king, demands that her brother's body remains unburied in the open with no funeral rights, to be savaged by animals. For King Creon, this is a symbolic justice for a traitor and a rebel, but the laws of the God’s, and the ruling of Antigone’s own mind, demands that she gives him libations (death rights) that all men deserve.
She buries the body and faces the consequences of the crime. Creon: And still you had the gall to break this law? Antigone: Of course I did. It wasn't Zeus, not in the least, who made this proclamation-not to me Nor did that justice, dwelling with the gods beneath the earth, ordain such laws for men. Nor did I think your edict had such force that you, a mere mortal, could override the gods.
So, like I said she’s a heroine, for standing up against tyranny, but she isn’t the play’s tragic hero: it’s clearly King Creon. Who has the right of this situation? It is easy to brand Creon a tyrant, though to do so overlooks the reasoning behind his actions.
In punishing Antigone’s dead brother, her rebellious dead brother, he is sending a political message to those that threaten the peace of Thebes. In reality he is being an effective, albeit harsh, ruler.
When his niece breaks his law, he has no choice but to punish her as he would any man. He couldn’t allow her to be an exception to the rule, to do so would be to undermine the law of the land and his politics: it would be to make him a hypocrite. But, to sentence her to death, that’s a little extreme. Thus, Sophocles presents a beautifully conflicted situation.
There is no longer a discernible sense of right or wrong, only a thin line of morality that separates a tyrant from a man of justice. And his conviction only gets worse; he refuses to hear what his son and the city (the chorus) think about the situation. He only sees his narrow-minded sense of justice, and ignores the effects it will have on his loved ones.
He has no doubts about his actions, and demonstrates the questionable nature of a cold approach to kingship. The laws of man are not always right. Something Creon simply cannot perceive. To his mind, he is morally right, a man of good character and a king of honour. Is this not the most dangerous of leaders? Creon: I will take her down some wild, desolate path never trod by men, and wall her up alive in a rocky vault, and set out short rations, just the measure piety demands to keep the entire city free of defilement. There let her pray to the one god she worships: Death—who knows?—may just reprieveher from death.
Or she may learn at last, better late than never, what a waste of breath it is to worship Death. And this is what makes him the play’s tragic hero.
His hamartia, his tragic flaw in Aristotle terms, is his severe lack of judgement, and his inability to perceive the wrongness of his decree. The reversal, recognition and suffering come in the form of the priest Tiresias, an old wise man who speaks to the Gods.
He tells Creon what will happen if he persists down his current path, and after much resistance, Creon finally relents his folly. But it is far too late. The blood has already been shed. Tragedy has already struck, death has already struck: Creon is left in tatters.
It is the hardest of lessons to learn. So what do we learn from this? Greek tragedy was didactical in purpose; it was used as a learning tool, a means of imparting wisdom to the audience. What is Sophocles message? For me it’s quite simple: open your eyes and your heart. Never presume that you are right and an absolute morale authority.
For Creon, his realisation came too late. The result was a sacrifice he will never forget, Antigone's death, and the one most readers seem to sympathise with. But I implore you to look further into the play, and consider the full role of Creon. To overlook him is to overlook the point of the work: “All men make mistakes, but a good man yields when he knows his course is wrong, and repairs the evil. The only crime is pride.” This play is a spectacular piece of work, though I think reading the other two plays helps to elucidate its greatness. For me, this book is one everybody should read at least once in their lifetime.
Oidipous epi Kolōnōi = Oedipus tyrannus coloneus and Antigone, Sophocles Oedipus at Colonus (also Oedipus Coloneus, Ancient Greek: Οἰδίπους ἐπὶ Κολωνῷ, Oidipous epi Kolōnōi) is one of the three Theban plays of the Athenian tragedian Sophocles. It was written shortly before Sophocles' death in 406 BC and produced by his grandson (also called Sophocles) at the Festival of Dionysus in 401 BC. تاریخ نخستین خوانش: بیست و ششم آگوست سال 1974 میلادی عنوان: سه نمایشنامه: اودیپوس شاه، اودیپوس در کولونوس، آن Oidipous epi Kolōnōi = Oedipus tyrannus coloneus and Antigone, Sophocles Oedipus at Colonus (also Oedipus Coloneus, Ancient Greek: Οἰδίπους ἐπὶ Κολωνῷ, Oidipous epi Kolōnōi) is one of the three Theban plays of the Athenian tragedian Sophocles. It was written shortly before Sophocles' death in 406 BC and produced by his grandson (also called Sophocles) at the Festival of Dionysus in 401 BC. تاریخ نخستین خوانش: بیست و ششم آگوست سال 1974 میلادی عنوان: سه نمایشنامه: اودیپوس شاه، اودیپوس در کولونوس، آنتیگون؛ مترجم: محمد سعیدی؛ زیرنظر: احسان یارشاطر؛ تهران، بنگاه ترجمه و نشر کتاب، نخستین بار سال 1334، در 196 ص؛ عنوان: افسانه های تبای؛ اثر: سوفوکلس؛ ترجمه: شاهرخ مسکوب؛ مشخصات نشر: تهران، خوارزمی، 1352، در 376 ص، شابک: ؛ چاپ دوم 1356، چاپ چهارم 1385، موضوع: ادیپ، نمایشنامه، اساطیر یونان، قرن پنج پیش از میلاد افسانه های تبای، اثر ماندگار ادیب مشهور یونانی (آتنی) سوفوکلس هستند. در یادداشتی کوتاه در ابتدای کتاب، چنین آمده: «نمایشنامه های: «ادیپوس شهریار»، «ادیپوس در کلنوس»، و «آنتیگونه»، پیش از این با عنوانهای: «ادیپ شهریار»، «ادیپ در کلنوس»، و «آنتیگون»، جداگانه به چاپ رسیده اند. این سه نمایشنامه براساس اسطوره ی دودمان لابداسید ها نوشته شده، و دوره ای از سرگذشت افسانه ای خاندان شاهی شهر «تبای» را مینمایانند.
موضوع هر سه نمایشنامه، به هم پیوسته، و مراحلی از پایان سرنوشت یک خانواده است. از همینرو اینبار، هر سه نمایشنامه در یک مجلد، و به نام «افسانه های تبای» به چاپ میرسد.» پایان نقل. This Robert Fagles translation is beautiful--far superior to other versions I've read (Fitts/Fitzgerald or David Greene's, for instance). The language is vibrant and compelling, an important asset for reading drama on the page. If you've not read Sophocles since a forced-and-indifferent slog during high school, I'd encourage you to rediscover it in a better light with this translation. Highly recommended. This was my first time reading all three 'Oedipus plays' in succession, and I appreciated th This Robert Fagles translation is beautiful--far superior to other versions I've read (Fitts/Fitzgerald or David Greene's, for instance).
The language is vibrant and compelling, an important asset for reading drama on the page. If you've not read Sophocles since a forced-and-indifferent slog during high school, I'd encourage you to rediscover it in a better light with this translation. Highly recommended. This was my first time reading all three 'Oedipus plays' in succession, and I appreciated that this volume presents them chronologically by Sophocles' date of composition rather than sequentially according to their place in the Theban myth.
It's helpful to think of the three plays not as a 'trilogy,' but rather three separate tellings of the myth. This is how the Greek audiences would have seen them, and this arrangement also serves to better highlight Sophocles' development as a playwright. The introductory essays by Bernard Knox are also a joy to read for those who are interested, but they're by no means a requirement for the general reader. The plays will stand on their own merit, with or without the introductory material. (At the very least, though, I'd suggest reading the brief summary of the Theban myths on pp.
27-29 for background if you're not already familiar with the story.). Of happiness the crown and chiefest part Is wisdom, to hold the gods in awe. This is the law That, seeing the stricken heart Of pride brought down, We learn when we are old. I felt an urge to return to the stories that set my mind on fire, way down the tunnels of time, and I chose blindly, or so I thought.
Enjoying them even more today than I did the first two dozen times I read them, I nonetheless wondered why these plays. In the middle of reading half a dozen other books, I still f Of happiness the crown and chiefest part Is wisdom, to hold the gods in awe. This is the law That, seeing the stricken heart Of pride brought down, We learn when we are old. I felt an urge to return to the stories that set my mind on fire, way down the tunnels of time, and I chose blindly, or so I thought.
Enjoying them even more today than I did the first two dozen times I read them, I nonetheless wondered why these plays. In the middle of reading half a dozen other books, I still felt restless, and kept circling the bookcases, looking for something more satisfying.
If ever there was a time to read, and understand Greek tragedy, it is now, given how the latest political events are shaping our world. In a time fraught with willing blindness, much as Oedipus himself adopts an unwillingness to see the truth before him, these plays are a reminder of the dangers that can ensue when we choose not to see what is so plainly before us.
The three plays combined seem to ask the same question: what is the duty of the citizen in the state: to uphold those laws imposed upon them by one man's invention, in The State, be that man ever so stubborn, or so wrong; or to listen to the heart and uphold the greater laws of Nature, and inherently, Humanity. It is a push-pull of the heart and mind and not so easily resolved as it would seem; and, because we are not gods, the right answer, The Truth, often comes too late, as it did with Creon.
Is there a time, ever, in humanity, when the prophecies were heeded in time? Or are we doomed to repeat this process, to the very end of time itself.
Not even Sophocles can offer an answer on that one. *Note: I only read Oedipus Rex and Antigone, not Oedipus at Colonus. There is literally nothing I could tell you about these plays that you don't already know from the thousands of books and movies that have referenced or been influenced by Oedipus ever since it was first performed. Four stars for overall story and dramatic themes, two stars because I didn't find it a very engaging or enjoyable read, averaged out to a nice three.
Five stars for literary importance, though. The self-fulfilling prop *Note: I only read Oedipus Rex and Antigone, not Oedipus at Colonus.
There is literally nothing I could tell you about these plays that you don't already know from the thousands of books and movies that have referenced or been influenced by Oedipus ever since it was first performed. Four stars for overall story and dramatic themes, two stars because I didn't find it a very engaging or enjoyable read, averaged out to a nice three. Five stars for literary importance, though. The self-fulfilling prophecy is one of my favourite plot devices, and Oedipus delivers a shockingly good one (and it's more than the fact that he bangs his mum, for those of you who haven't read it). Very complex and interesting. I also love the theme of destiny and free will (which are also explored further in Antigone).
Damn, did those Greeks love to torture their heroes. I thoroughly enjoyed this translation of Sophocles Theban plays. Robert Fagles placed the plays in the order written, rather than in their dramatic chronology. At first I thought this was strange, but I followed his lead and read 'Antigone' first. Now, after reading Oedipus the King and Oedipus at Colonus, I have a much greater feeling for Antigone's suffering and a much better understanding of Creon's perspective as well. Now I'm ready to re-read Antigone better armed with the facts of their re I thoroughly enjoyed this translation of Sophocles Theban plays. Robert Fagles placed the plays in the order written, rather than in their dramatic chronology.
At first I thought this was strange, but I followed his lead and read 'Antigone' first. Now, after reading Oedipus the King and Oedipus at Colonus, I have a much greater feeling for Antigone's suffering and a much better understanding of Creon's perspective as well.
Now I'm ready to re-read Antigone better armed with the facts of their respective histories. Beyond that, what can I say about Sophocles? He treats these myths with genius skills, contemporary mastery of his times and a deep understanding of his fellow Athenians. An amazing accomplishment and an important work for any serious student of drama or literature to read deeply and repeatedly. The Thug perspective: *************** 2015 reread: Everything I said above and then some.
The more Greek drama I read, the more I understand the sources and obsessions of western literature. Alternate title: in which everyone stabs or hangs themselves. Seriously, this book features a hell of a lot of suicide. And I get it - finding out that you've been banging your son for the past 15-20 years can't be a pleasant experience.
But this just ended up feeling repetitive to me. The biggest problem with this one for me, I suspect, is that all the action in the story takes place off stage. And I totally understand why that's the case, but it means that all the reader/viewer gets is recaps Alternate title: in which everyone stabs or hangs themselves. Seriously, this book features a hell of a lot of suicide.
And I get it - finding out that you've been banging your son for the past 15-20 years can't be a pleasant experience. But this just ended up feeling repetitive to me. The biggest problem with this one for me, I suspect, is that all the action in the story takes place off stage. And I totally understand why that's the case, but it means that all the reader/viewer gets is recaps of what's been happening off stage, and frankly?
Antigone was probably the most interesting of the three plays for me, but even that wasn't the most fascinating subject matter. So I appreciate them for their historical merit and value. But I won't be rereading them in a hurry. Not over-rated. Fagles' translation is solid, much clearer than his Aeschylus, though I actually prefer the opacity he brought to that text. Of course, that might have been in Aeschylus.
I will never learn Greek well enough to tell. Antigone was the earliest of these plays, though the last within the narrative. I can't help but read it with my Hegel glasses on: the clash between Creon and Antigone is an example of a failed conceptual grasp of the world, in which the claims on us of family/ So. Not over-rated. Fagles' translation is solid, much clearer than his Aeschylus, though I actually prefer the opacity he brought to that text.
Of course, that might have been in Aeschylus. I will never learn Greek well enough to tell. Antigone was the earliest of these plays, though the last within the narrative.
I can't help but read it with my Hegel glasses on: the clash between Creon and Antigone is an example of a failed conceptual grasp of the world, in which the claims on us of family/tradition/ancient gods cannot be accommodated by our living in larger, civic communities. Divine law and human law sometimes do not go together, but only a tyrant would insist on hewing to the latter alone. Removing the Hegel glasses, I can see that Creon, to his credit, does change his mind. But this being Greece, by then it's all too late. The 'lesson', if you like, is simply that one has to exercise excellent judgment in these matters. This question of judgment works through the Oedipus plays, as well; each tyrant (Oedipus in OK, Creon in OC) fails to use good judgment; the good king Theseus does exercise it, and thus Athens rules etc etc. I know we're 'meant' to think that these plays are really about always bowing down to the gods and accepting fate, but that just doesn't square with what actually happens: Athens succeeds because of Theseus's wisdom just as much as his piety; Thebes will eventually fall because of its kings' folly just as much as their impiety.
In OK, Oedipus has the chorus's support in his argument with Tiresias, because Oedipus's defeat of the Sphinx acts as proof of his regality; but when he accuses Creon without evidence, they give up on him. Because by acting without evidence, he shows poor judgment. The best play for reading is easily Oedipus the King, which is horrifying and glorious in equal measure. Also, if anyone out there knows of a good book on Tiresias, let me know.
As for Knox's introductory essays, they're not particularly thrilling. There's too much plot-summary (good news for freshmen, I guess), and his insights are so skewed ('these plays aren't depressing! They're about how we do have some control over our lives!'
) that it's hard to take him seriously. But they're still worth reading. So, what did we learn? Circle one 1. Embrace any prophecy, as fighting against it will only make it come true 2. Always give way to anyone playing chicken with you on the road 3.
Stay in school and pay special attention to 'riddles,' because only smart people end up with a good career as a king 4. Don't marry the widows of any king, unless you have her DNA checked 5. If you accidentally marry your mother, don't tell her because she will hang herself 6. If you have two brothers, don't break the law in So, what did we learn? Circle one 1.
Embrace any prophecy, as fighting against it will only make it come true 2. Always give way to anyone playing chicken with you on the road 3.
Stay in school and pay special attention to 'riddles,' because only smart people end up with a good career as a king 4. Don't marry the widows of any king, unless you have her DNA checked 5. If you accidentally marry your mother, don't tell her because she will hang herself 6. If you have two brothers, don't break the law in trying to get them both buried because if you do, eventually you will hang yourself.
The feminist inside of me applauds Antigone (pronounced n-TIG-uh-nee) breaking the law, and not being afraid to admit it later--saying there is a 'higher power' than the authority of the court. Favorite regular part: After Oedipus' 'mother/wife' hangs herself. Oedipus seized a pin from her dress and blinded himself with it. (If it was a broach pin, that must have really hurt because those pins are huge and usually rusty.).
Sophocles I: Oedipus The King; Oedipus at Colonus; Antigone (The Complete Greek Tragedies) published: 1954 (my copy is a 33rd printing from 1989) format: 206 page Paperback acquired: May 30 from a Half-Price Books read: July 3-4 rating: 4 Each play had a different translator - (circa 429 bce) - translated by c1942 - (written by 406 bce, performed 401 bce) - translated by c1941 - (by 441 bce) - translated by 42. Sophocles I: Oedipus The King; Oedipus at Colonus; Antigone (The Complete Greek Tragedies) published: 1954 (my copy is a 33rd printing from 1989) format: 206 page Paperback acquired: May 30 from a Half-Price Books read: July 3-4 rating: 4½ Each play had a different translator - (circa 429 bce) - translated by c1942 - (written by 406 bce, performed 401 bce) - translated by c1941 - (by 441 bce) - translated by c1954 Greek tragedy can fun. After all those rigid plays, that is the lesson of Sophocles. The drama within the dialogue is always dynamic, and sometimes really terrific.
I had to really get in the mood to enjoy reading a play by Aeschylus, otherwise I might be bored by the long dull choral dialogues. These three plays are all different and all from different points in Sophocles career, but they each drew me on their own. Although they are all on the same story line, they were not written together, or in story order. Was first, and was written when Sophocles was still trying to make a name for himself (vs Aeschylus).
Came next, when Sophocles was well established. Was apparently written just before Sophocles death, at about age 90. It wasn't performed until several years after his death. All this seems to show in the plays. Having the sense of an author trying to make a striking impression. Carrying the sense of a master playwright with it's dramatic set ups. Is slower, and more reflective.
And two of the main characters are elderly. This is simply a striking play, from the opening lines. In line 8, Oedipus characterizes himself to children suppliants as 'I Oedipus who all men call the Great.' It shows his confidence, but, as Thebes is in the midst of a suffering famine, it also shows outrageous arrogance - it's the only clear sing of this in the play. He is otherwise a noble character throughout. Of course he doesn't know what's coming.
In the course of the play he will learn, slowly, his own tragic story - that a man he had killed in a highway fight was his father, and that his wife, and mother of his four children is also his own mother. As each person resists giving him yet another dreadful piece of information, he gets angry at them, threatening them in disbelief at their hesitancy. His denial lasts longer than that of Jocasta, his mother/wife, who leaves the play in dramatic fashion herself, first trying to stop the information flow, and then giving Oedipus a cryptic goodbye.
And even as his awareness gets worse and worse, he cannot step out of character, the show-off i-do-everything-right ruler, but must continue to pursue the truth to it bitter fullness. A mature play in many ways. It's slow, thoughtful, has much ambiguity, and has many touching moments. The opening scene is memorable, where a blind Oedipus moves through the wilderness only with the close guidance of his daughter, Antigone.
Who will be kind to Oedipus this evening And give the wanderer charity? Though he ask little and receive still less, It is sufficient: Suffering and time, Vast time, have been instructors in contentment, Which kingliness teaches too.
But now, child, If you can see a place we might rest.It's interesting to see Creon, Jocasta's brother, turn bad. But it's more interesting to see Oedipus have a bitter side to him. He maintains his noble character, and that is the point of the play—he is hero because he never did anything bad intentionally, and yet he bears full punishment. But he also makes some interesting calls, essentially setting up a future war between his Thebes and Athens. And, Antigone is striking too. She saves Oedipus critically several times through her advice or her speech.
While sacrificing herself and maintaining real affection for Oedipus, she is also shrewd, stepping forward boldly and changing the atmosphere. This play takes place immediately after what covered in.
Polyneices has attacked Thebes with his Argive army, and been repulsed by his brother Eteocles. Both are sons of Oedipus and they have killed each other in the battle. Creon is now ruler. He is a stiff ruler.
Despite much warning, he refuses to listen to popular opinion, instead threatening it to silence (a clear political point is being made). But the problems start when he refuses to give his attacker Polyneices a proper burial. He threatens death on anyone who does try to bury him.
Antigone openly defies this rule, setting up the play's drama. It's an extreme tragedy with a hamlet-like ending where practically everyone dies. I felt there was less here than in the other two plays, but yet there is still a lot. And it's still fun. Overall I don't imagine citizens of Thebes liked these plays.
There is an unspoken sense of noble Athen poking fun its neighbor throughout. But, as it's not Athens, they give the playwright freedom to work in otherwise dangerous political points - and those are clearly there.
But, mostly, these were fun plays. They don't need to be read as a trilogy. They were not meant that way, despite the plot-consistency. Each is independent. There are four more plays by Sophocles. I'm actually going to save them and start Euripides next.
Because I think Sophocles is something to look forward to and that might push me through the next bunch. As always, I am torn among the many translations.
I have this Penguin edition, translated by Robert Fagles (1982), and the older (1949) translation by Dudley Fitts & Robert Fitzgerald. Fagles' translation reads well, but so does Fitzgerald's. Fitzgerald breaks down the play to scenes, which I like--even though these are short plays, I find Fagles' no-break translation rather tiresome.
(I have no idea which style is more faithful to the ancient Greek original.) Sometimes the two translations As always, I am torn among the many translations. I have this Penguin edition, translated by Robert Fagles (1982), and the older (1949) translation by Dudley Fitts & Robert Fitzgerald. Fagles' translation reads well, but so does Fitzgerald's. Fitzgerald breaks down the play to scenes, which I like--even though these are short plays, I find Fagles' no-break translation rather tiresome.
(I have no idea which style is more faithful to the ancient Greek original.) Sometimes the two translations are so quite different that I wonder if they come from the same original (perhaps there are variations?) Here is the same speech by Antigone: Fitzgerald I dared. It was not God's proclamation. That final Justice That rules the world below makes no such laws. Your edict, King, was strong, But all your strength is weakness itself against The immortal unrecorded laws of God. They are not merely now: they were, and shall be, Operative for ever, beyond man utterly.
I knew I must die, even without your decree: I am only mortal. And if I must die Now, before it is my time to die, Surely this is no hardship: can anyone Living, as I live, with evil all about me, Think Death less than a friend?
Fagles Of course I did. It wasn't Zeus, not in the least, who made this proclamation--not to me. Nor did that Justice, dwelling with the gods beneath the earth, ordain such laws for men.
Nor did I think your edict had such force that you, a mere mortal, could override the gods, the great unwritten, unshakable traditions. They are alive, not just today or yesterday: they live forever, from the first of time, and no one knows when they first saw the light. These laws--I was not about to break them, not out of fear of some man's wounded pride, and face the retribution of the gods. Die I must, I've known it all my life-- how could I keep from knowing?--even without your death-sentence ringing in my ears. And if I am to die before my time I consider that a gain. Who on earth, alive in the midst of so much grief as I, could fail to find his death a rich reward?
As you see, Fagles tends to be wordy. And where did the line 'not out of fear of some man's wounded pride' come from? (I sorta like it, however. Ah, the two equally proud characters--Antigone and Creon. I can see both sides' points.) These plays were offered at events to honor Dionysus, the god of joy and entertainment. I find it interesting that tragedies were the main part of this theatrical event.
Apparently, ancient Greeks knew the positive, cleansing effect of a good cry. Star missing because I don't know Greek, and this translation is older than I am. I read Antigone in trans as a college freshman, taught Oedipus a couple dozen times, always applicable to the current epidemic--AIDS/ HIV, or whatever, first scene, citizens prostrate before the ruler who brought on the disaster, unbenownst. NOW we have a BENOWNST disaster-bringer to prostrate ourselves before--the Swamp-Drainer with his Cabinet of Swamp Monsters. And the Congress, the Full Swamp, has just eliminat Star missing because I don't know Greek, and this translation is older than I am. I read Antigone in trans as a college freshman, taught Oedipus a couple dozen times, always applicable to the current epidemic--AIDS/ HIV, or whatever, first scene, citizens prostrate before the ruler who brought on the disaster, unbenownst. NOW we have a BENOWNST disaster-bringer to prostrate ourselves before--the Swamp-Drainer with his Cabinet of Swamp Monsters.
And the Congress, the Full Swamp, has just eliminated the non-partisan Ethics Committee, made it part of the partisan Congressional Ethics, as my physician friend has said, 'Didn't take 'em long to hook up the sewer system to the swamp.' But I still don't know what to think of reading lit in trans., which I usually avoid. Just haven't committed to learn ancient Greek. I've read a bit of Seneca's Oedipus, but. And here's a translation from 1939. Classic, but not classical, what? I was surprised I didn't like this as well as the others, simply because it was more elegant in style and therefore marginally harder to read for meaning.
Antigone didn't come across on a quick read with the raw spirit I perceived in the other plays. What I did love about this translation: the lessons taught to Creon by Tiresius and even by his own son Haemon were so elegant and expansive: 'It's no disgrace for a man, even a wise man, to learn many things and not to be too rigid. You've seen trees I was surprised I didn't like this as well as the others, simply because it was more elegant in style and therefore marginally harder to read for meaning.
Antigone didn't come across on a quick read with the raw spirit I perceived in the other plays. What I did love about this translation: the lessons taught to Creon by Tiresius and even by his own son Haemon were so elegant and expansive: 'It's no disgrace for a man, even a wise man, to learn many things and not to be too rigid. You've seen trees by a raging winter torrent, how many sway with the flood and salvage every twig, but not the stubborn--they're ripped out, roots and all. Bend or break.' The Chinese have a similar saying. It's good advice to anyone, though one recognizes there is a difference between stubbornness and enlightened principle, which should not be comprised with easy solutions.
I loved Haemon telling his father: 'What a splendid king you'd make of a desert island--you and yourself alone.' Later, Tiresius tries again to warm Creon, 'Take these things to heart, my son, I warn you.Stubbornness brands you for stupidity--pride is a crime.
No, yield to the dead! Never stab a fighter when he's down.
Where's the glory, killing the dead twice over?' And the Chorus at the end, telling us 'Wisdom is by far the greatest part of joy, and reverence toward the gods must be safeguarded. The mighty words of the proud are paid in full with mighty blows of fate, and at long last those blows will teach us wisdom.' We'll learn it easy or learn it hard, but wisdom comes.
At what price? This edition tells us slightly more about why Creon hates Polynices but not why Polynices did what he did. Polynices returned to Thebes 'consumed with one desire--to burn them roof to roots.' While his brother Eteocles is 'crowned with a hero's honors.' This play is so brilliant, it is difficult to imagine someone could ruin it. This translation by Robert Fagles is masterly in the old style, and the Introduction and Notes are authored by Bernard Knox.
Did not read the other plays at this time. Most English translations of, say, the Greek New Testament are shepherded by a conviction that the original words had divine inspiration and so are best rendered verbatim wherever possible. At the same time, there generally is a concession (for good or ill) to the reality that if what results is not sufficiently lofty and reverential in tone, the faithful are unlikely to accept it. Attempts at classical Greek drama and poetry tend to be guided by rather different considerations: The translator's Most English translations of, say, the Greek New Testament are shepherded by a conviction that the original words had divine inspiration and so are best rendered verbatim wherever possible. At the same time, there generally is a concession (for good or ill) to the reality that if what results is not sufficiently lofty and reverential in tone, the faithful are unlikely to accept it. Attempts at classical Greek drama and poetry tend to be guided by rather different considerations: The translator's audience may consist of fellow scholars, reluctant undergraduate students, or an adventurous minority of the general public; and each of these groups will have particular demands. Too often work thus emerges which is precise but lifeless, or loosely interpreted to conform to the structures of 19th-century-style Anglo-American poetry, or so liberally seasoned with present-day colloquialisms as to jar the reader repeatedly out of the proper period and setting.
For the most part, Paul Roche navigates skilfully through these hazards in trying his hand at Sophocles's Oedipus trilogy, and has produced a rendition that is readable, yet preserves classical distinctiveness. Once or twice in the first play a turn of phrase does feel awkwardly modern, but such flashes are rare and soon either disappear or blend into the overall arc of the stories. That Roche is himself a poet clearly enriched the labour, and his reflections, in the Introduction, on the essence of poetry and the challenge of its transmission across lines of language, era, and culture border on the profound. Poetry lies somewhere between meaning and music, sense and sound.,' he writes; and in this region he attempts to set Sophocles's work. He echoes the meter of the original without imitating it exactly, and preserves more of the Greek dramatic structure (complete with `strophes' and `antistrophes') than do many other translations available. Yet Roche remains mindful that this is also a PLAY, and manages the formalized dialogue with an eye (or ear) to the possibility of his version itself turning up on stage. He also provides an afterword outlining principles to guide such performance.
The reader of this translation whose only prior encounter with the Oedipus legend was some now-vaguely-remembered lesson in school, or perhaps Edith Hamilton's summary, may be surprised at how effectively one is drawn in. Roche, like Sophocles before him, succeeds in bringing the remote and legendary close enough to touch, while allowing it to remain sufficiently mysterious to stir the imagination. I had to read Antigone, the third play in The Oedipus Cycle, in the 9th or 10th grade. The teacher filled us in about the occurrences in Oedipus Rex, but our starting point was only with Antigone. My memory fails to recall which grade exactly, but I certainly remember how my English teacher made it deathly boring. I can't remember which teacher, but it still clings to my memory his or her words about Oedipus' 'fatal flaw.'
This was repeated over and over I guess to sound like an expert. One of t I had to read Antigone, the third play in The Oedipus Cycle, in the 9th or 10th grade. The teacher filled us in about the occurrences in Oedipus Rex, but our starting point was only with Antigone. My memory fails to recall which grade exactly, but I certainly remember how my English teacher made it deathly boring. I can't remember which teacher, but it still clings to my memory his or her words about Oedipus' 'fatal flaw.'
This was repeated over and over I guess to sound like an expert. One of the fatal flaws for me in studying Sophocles' masterpieces was to present the last of the trilogy in the very dry teaching mode of my teacher. Great literature was ruined. I couldn't for the life of me at the time believe what the teacher was saying that Antigone was classic literature. I was squirming in the seat reading it and hating every class lecture, reading, and discussion.
I don't know if reading the entire Oedipus Cycle at the time would have helped me to have a different view or not. Thirty years later I have evolved in taste. It started happening in the 12th grade. It takes a special teacher to know how to bring alive antique and ancient literature, and Mr. Harwood did with Hamlet in his advanced English class. Following a school year in his class, even sitting through the classes of stodgy old English professors in college wasn't so bad after 12th grade English, but it took me three decades to come back to Sophocles, and I'm very happy I did. I should have come back sooner since my used copy has been on the shelf at least 20 years.
This is a marvelous translation. The language runs smooth and elegantly. The drama and the desire to know what will happen next made this a page turner for me.
2500 years later The Oedipus Cycle holds up very well. Although this is Greek tragedy there are a few flashes of humor, especially in Antigone.
This translation includes a commentary following Oedipus at Colonus and Antigone and also an index of names. Was the only play I read out of this anthology of Sophoclean tragedies. It was surprisingly quite amusing. I thought it would be more. Well, tragic really.
The ugly sobbing kind of tragedy - Titanic style. But instead it read like a soap opera. The drama scale was beyond imaginable. We had people dying and crying left, right and centre. It was fantastic! The writing was good too.
It had the feel of a ancient Shakespearean play but was much more 'readable'. There was no need to have was the only play I read out of this anthology of Sophoclean tragedies. It was surprisingly quite amusing. I thought it would be more. Well, tragic really.
The ugly sobbing kind of tragedy - Titanic style. But instead it read like a soap opera. The drama scale was beyond imaginable. We had people dying and crying left, right and centre. It was fantastic!
The writing was good too. It had the feel of a ancient Shakespearean play but was much more 'readable'. There was no need to have a dictionary sitting on your lap as you read it.
The wording was sophisticated but got the point across clearly at the same time. I'd recommend it to anyone wanting to get a better understanding of plays - this one is supposedly the best tragedy ever written - or wants to know more about ancient Greek literature. Sophocles (born c. 496 bc, Colonus, near Athens [Greece]—died 406, Athens), (Greek:; German editions:, Russian:, French editions: ) was an ancient Greek tragedy playwright. Not many things are known about his life other than that he was wealthy, well educated and wrote about one hundred and twenty three plays (of which few are extant). One of his best known plays Sophocles (born c. 496 bc, Colonus, near Athens [Greece]—died 406, Athens), (Greek:; German editions:, Russian:, French editions: ) was an ancient Greek tragedy playwright.
Not many things are known about his life other than that he was wealthy, well educated and wrote about one hundred and twenty three plays (of which few are extant). One of his best known plays is 'Oedipus the King' (Oedipus Rex). “If through no fault of his own the hero is crushed by a bulldozer in Act II, we are not impressed. Even though life is often like this—the absconding cashier on his way to Nicaragua is killed in a collision at the airport, the prominent statesman dies of a stroke in the midst of the negotiations he has spent years to bring about, the young lovers are drowned in a boating accident the day before their marriage—such events, the warp and woof of everyday life, seem irrelevant, meaningless.
They are crude, undigested, unpurged bits of reality—to draw a metaphor from the late J. Edgar Hoover, they are “raw files.” But it is the function of great art to purge and give meaning to human suffering, and so we expect that if the hero is indeed crushed by a bulldozer in Act II there will be some reason for it, and not just some reason but a good one, one which makes sense in terms of the hero’s personality and action. In fact, we expect to be shown that he is in some way responsible for what happens to him.” —.
Bookmark Author Subjects;; Summary The two volumes of essays and translations of the tragedies of Sophocles and Euripides are the accumulation of some twelve years' of producing ancient plays for contemporary audiences and actors. The play-texts themselves, therefore, are intended to be accessible and speakable, in the first instance, and to convey as much of the flavour of the original Greek as any translation is able.
They are there to be used. The style, though personal to a degree, is an attempt to maintain the tone and t. Wikipedia Read associated article: Bookmark Work ID 5910070.
Is a writer specializing in dance and online content. She is also a dance instructor with over 20 years experience teaching in dance studios, community programs, and colleges. She began in 2008, equipped with a passion for movement education and an intuitive sense that a blog could bring dancers together. As a Houston-based dance writer, Nichelle covers dance performance for Dance Source Houston, Arts+Culture Texas, and other publications. She is a leader in social media within the dance community and has presented on blogging for dance organizations, including Dance/USA. Nichelle provides web consulting and writing for dancers, dance schools and studios, and those beyond the dance world.
I feel this is such an important subject among young dancers. When I was 11 and the time came for pointe shoes, I couldn’t wait and either could my fellow classmates. Unfortunately, most of us weren’t ready and didn’t make it past one year dancing with them. It is hard to define readiness because it is different for every dancer, and can’t just be decided on by age. This post is something that should be widely publicized among the dance world, especially to more-than-eager dance parents as well.
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Thank you for this because it is something that needs to be addressed. You have great insight!
-Rachel • says. You are not alone, Rachel. Many, many dance studios are putting kids on pointe without the training to back it up.
I know what it is like to study and teach dance in a small town. There are some that would call it negligence (and in some cases, I suppose it may be) but often it just lack of informed knowledge of ballet it can be difficult in some places to find qualified and professional ballet instructors. Many studios operate on a model that includes pointe work simply because the studio they learned from offered it and the studio before them and down the line. It’s become such an expectation that there is a fear that students will leave if they aren’t allowed to go on pointe or if it is not offered. And, well maybe that’s true but I also believe that a discerning teacher/studio or one brave enough to say “you know, we focus on recreational ballet study and pointe requires more intense instruction, so we don’t offer it,” makes a studio stand out for all the right reasons. Some may walk away but this studio will also draw to itself the kind of students and parents who will be getting what they need to be and feel successful in their dance study. They’ll be as Suzanne Gerety likes to say, “loyal raving fans” rather than frustrated parents wondering why they are investing in classes when their child still looks wobbly in pointe shoes after two years or students who feel more awkward than elegant when they sport their satin slippers.
Excellent article. I could say loads about allowing kids on pointe who haven’t had the right kind or enough training. My daughter got her first pointe shoes just before her 9th birthday, just after passing her Vaganova level 2 exams (administered from St. Women in my family tend to have almost all of their growth by age 12 and start cycling at age 9 -11, meaning we tend to have the physical development of an 11-14-year-old quite young. And–this is the caveat–for the first several months she didn’t do much at all in them. She learned to sew on the ribbons; to store them properly; how to break them in. And she did lots and lots of exercises without them in order to strengthen the right muscles so she’d be safe in them.
She was passed into them because of her physical development, with the blessing of a podiatrist who works with dancers. For the next year and a half, if she had pointe work at all, it was no more than 1/2 hour a week (including warmup) out of a 12-hour-a-week schedule. I almost think that getting them was something of a motivational factor for the class, but the girls were handled with great care to make sure they were really solid before putting them on. She has now passed the level 3 exams, and next year her class will have an hour a week for pointe.
And she’ll be turning 12 in the middle of the year. There have been kids there doing level 3 and even level 4 work whose bodies aren’t yet ready for pointe (usually bone development) that simply do the work in soft shoes until the docs pass them.
I think the oldest that this happened to was 13. At the same school where a couple barely 9-year-olds were passed. Most recreational schools aren’t going to have a podiatrist and teachers trained in physiology to know what to look for, so age 11 is a safe general guideline. But when you hear “The Russians put their kids on pointe at age 8!” you’ll know the truth. It’s not every kid. It’s highly individualized. Given that sometimes even properly-trained 13-year-olds don’t have the right bone development yet, it’s a good idea to check with a podiatrist anyway, if you can find one used to working with ballet dancers.
You make an excellent point about individualized assessment from qualified teachers AND physiologists or doctors! Though you are right many schools do not have the ability to extend medical assessment as a service to their students, a school paying attention to the latest dance science recommendations would require all pointe students to be medically evaluated before beginning pointe. Yet another reason I feel many studios out there should reconsider or reevaluate their pointe program. Thanks for your comment and for stopping!
Hi Nichelle Im so pleased to see an article like this published. As a pointeshoe designer, it is very difficult for me to develop appropriate footwear for the market, when that market contains dancers that should not yet be “en pointe”. One concern, for example, is the commercialisation of harder shanks that seem to be in demand from young bodies that dont yet have the strength to support themselves correctly. While pointshoes are extremely subjective, and hard shanks certainly do work for many experienced dancers, it seems counter productive to have a 10 year old wearing rock hard pointeshoes and struggling to achieve anywhere near the correct line through the spine, hips and legs. We need to educate, so thankyou for spreading the word – Tim • says.
Hi I was very interested in what you have to say about the hardness of pointe shoes. Do you not think that a lot of dancers going en pointe for the first time just are not ready.? I find that a softer shanked shoe can sometimes be extremely difficult for a new dancer to stand up in as you need a good core stability to hold you there. I fit each dancer according to what is in front of me. Some dancers require more strength.
For me it is a dancers ability to be able to push over the box, and use the demi pointe break correctly. I find that many teachers do not teach the correct breaking in of pointe shoes also.
I use a stronger backed shoe if a dancer is heavier. For me it is all about the shoe style. A higher arch with longer toes may need a longer vamp. It is such a difficult subject of which there is no right or wrong answer but to adapt it to what the dancer in front of you is needing.
I feel that too many dancers are in the wrong size of shoe, meaning that the arch does not adhere to the correct point on the shank. For me a lot of problems are caused by ouch pouches pushing them out of a box and requiring a shoe too wide and long for the foot. Its great to see a pointe shoe designer making comments on a page like this. So appreciated. Yes I absolutely agree with you, many dancers are going on pointe too early.
At the end of the day a shank is only doing its job when it is conforming to the foot. Having a rock hard shank that doesn’t bend is doing nothing except forcing more weight into the toes.
And its the mentality of putting weak/young dancers in harder shanks that can cause problems. Its natural to think that a weak dancer needs a hard shank, but unless they are taught to break/bend these hard shanks correctly, the opposite is true. And that is where the core strength you mention comes in. • Amanda says. Tim you make a great point with the harder shanks.
I believe that each student is unique in their needs, but most students generally speaking, should not need to begin their pointe work with super shanks! I think if there seems to be an increasing demand of harder shanks for young dancers, I certainly think there can be a correlation with students beginning pointe work too early, before they have fully developed the proper strength and technique to support themselves with a more appropriate shank. When I began pointe work, I was put in a soft shank, and I remember the majority of my class was the same, or had a medium shank. I progressed through mediums, and then hard shanks rather quickly, as I have always had stronger feet and ankles naturally, and once I got into center work especially, I started “killing” my softer shoes at an abnormally fast rate. I believe that by starting a student in hard shanks, unless they have an individual circumstance that requires it, actually has the potential of pulling away much of the hard work the student did in pre-pointe, building up their muscles.
With that initial shoes(s) being hard, a student can rely on the shoe itself instead of their own strength, and end up executing early pointe work poorly and progressing at a slower rate. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Tim! Amanda* • says.
I fit Pointe shoes and you have some fabulous, very important information here on your site. I 100% agree with the importance of age and bone development. I do however see so much damage that has been done to young dancers feet and this is mainly due to the badly fitted shoes they are wearing.
I see that you have a picture of a Grishko 2007 pointe shoe above? That foot also has an ouch pouch inside it, this means that the shoe has to be a 1/2 size to 1 full size, then add the extra width to fit the foot and pouch inside it thus making the shoe too big. When the dancer gets en pointe the foot will sink down the shoe causing stress on the growth plates on the dancers soft bones, plus with the extra width again the foot will spread down into the shoe. I am interested on what your opinion on the use of these ouch pouches are? I do sometimes think that some fitters have an easy job by using these inserts, it means that they can fit badly and easily because the insert is taking away any pain. I take the minimum of 1 hour to fit a shoe, sometimes 2 for a first fittingI also wonder why fitters do not look at the line of the leg, making the shoe and leg look like one complete extension, instead of a leg with a big shoe on it. Ballet is all about lines and yet I am completely shocked why this line does not extend to the tips of the toes, I feel the eye should not even see the shoe on a dancer there making one beautiful line.
I would really be interested to know your views or anybody else’s view on this, Many thanks in advance to you. Hi Linda, I missed this comment before but wanted to say thanks for sharing your thoughts and expertise throughout. I’m not really qualified to speak to all of the issues you raise here.
(the image is simply a nice quality, freely licensed photo, so I have no connection to the wearer or fitter of the pointe shoe) However, it is my understanding that a well-fitted pointe shoe should not need an ouch pouch. Maybe I’m old-school in thinking that taping and perhaps a little lambs wool is a better solution for any necessary spot-protecting? I think though that the majority of students out there in studios do not have access to or cannot afford qualified fitters or a more customized shoe. They get a little advice from their teacher or the store clerk and so, yes, they probably do end up needing an ouch pouch. This is yet another reason why I am an advocate for reexamining pointe programs at the recreational level. Hi Tim I can hear what you are saying re ouch pouches but I fit a snug shoe so I can take away the need for a pouch, but I will use items etc. That take up no further room in the box so as to get that snug fit.
In my experience an ouch pouch can increase the size and width required of a shoe by maybe a half size length and an X width box. Once the shoe has warmed and has that little give this then means a foot slides down the box.
I require a dancer to be able to pull out of the box (using her core muscles) when she dances, if the shoe is starting out with room this is an impossible thing to do. If a shoe is the exact length and width for the foot, it will work better en pointe.
The area usually needing a little padding is the big toe as thats where the foot steers the shoe, but its good that we all have differing views, it all helps the dancer to strive for the perfect shoe.but the thinner the inserts the snugger the shoe. • Amanda says. Linda, I’m so glad someone mentioned the photo above. When I first came across the article, I noticed the issue with the ouch pouches and the ill-fitted shoes, and it was driving me crazy! I personally, have tried multiple avenues for comfortable padding options, that at the same time allow me to feel the floor, have a snug fit, and do not hinder my technique. It’s quite the task, with so many options, it adds a whole other issue with pointe shoe buying! When I first began pointe work, I started with tape, and some lambs wool.
Those were really the only options that were presented to me. After some time went by, “Ouch Pouches” became the latest trend, (as if pointe shoe padding was a trend at all!?) everyone at my studio was trying them out, so of course, I went out and got them. I danced with ouch pouches for most of high school, and no wonder when years later I came across my beloved collection of high school pointes, and decided to try them all on for a sentimental moment, none of them seemed to fit properly or comfortably with the padding I use now! (I know my feet also most likely changed but I do think the “Ouch Pouches” played a role).
After my “Ouch Pouch” days, I tried various brands of Gels. Some far too bulky, some that didn’t fit my wide foot properly, and some that even made my pointe work distorted looking because they didn’t allow me to feel the floor and sat in my shoe in strange positions. After many frustrations with Gels, I spent some time back with tape, and would stick tissues, and various little pads (like corn and bunion types) that I would buy from the drug store, and use them accordingly with the areas that were inflamed, or injured. Unfortunately, as you can imagine, this is not a fun route to take, as it seems silly to take action in your comfort after having do damage, rather than using preventative measures! More recently, I have returned to the Gel “World” in search of new and improved Gels.
I was able to use a blue, medium thickness Gel for a rather long time (I can’t remember the brand) and was pretty satisfied with them. They were the best I had tried, I could still feel the floor, and the nasty blistering, cuts, etc.
Were of course subsiding! I finally had to retire that pair, and I returned to the dance store with the anticipation of purchasing the same ones. However, the very knowledgeable store clerk recommended another kind, lighter weight, thinner, better fit, and clear, and I love them! (Made by Bloch) I think perhaps I have finally found the right padding for me! (Don’t want to say that too loud!) Now, to return to the never-ending quest of finding the perfect pointe shoe!
Anyway, you didn’t ask for my life journey in the padding world, but I just wanted to say I highly agree with you in regards to the “Ouch Pouches” and I hope students know there are many options available, especially as years go on and more and more time is dedicated to the pointe shoe world. Thanks, Amanda* • Omer says. My daughter Alina will be 9 in a weeks time. She started ballet classes 2 years ago advancing from Primary in Dance to Grade 1 (Royal Academy of Dance)and Grade 2 beginning this curricular year. She passed her RAD Grade one exam with “Distinction”. Last year she attended a two hour weekly course with a supplementary private hour (total 3 hours).
This year she has augmented that to a total of 4 hours a week with 2 hours private tuition. She is working with a former Kirov ballerina who maintains that our daughter holds great promise. This year, as of January she would like to get Alina started with pointe shoes. Alina is light and relatively “petite”, but has stamina and muscle strength.
Nevertheless, taking your above guidelines as a general starting point, Alina should wait another 2 years until she is 11. While I am aware that providing advice from afar is difficult, going by your experience and gut feeling, would you recommend waiting at least another year, or based on the fact that Alina’s teacher is somebody who has actually graduated from the Vaganova Academy, danced at the Mariinsky and personally gone through the grueling professional dance world, she ought to know whether our daughter is up to the task or not. Thanks in advance for any insight you may wish to share. Hi Omar It sounds like your daughter is doing very well, congratulations. In my opinion, being a professional dancer doesn’t necessarily qualify you to make decisions on the safest route to a career on pointe. Thats not to say that your teacher isn’t qualified, but from the qualifications you have listed here, I would look to get a second opinion.
I myself am an ex-professional dancer, and I have spent the last 12 years studying, designing, testing and fitting pointeshoes on ballerinas around the world. And I would not consider myself qualified to advise on this issue. If you have access to a physiotherapist that works with dancers, it might be a good idea to combine their advice with your teacher to come to the right decision. Hello Omar, I agree with Timothy’s answer.
Many top schools do not rely on a teacher’s assessment alone and work directly with physiotherapists to assess their pointe students. In addition, I’d like to point you to a resource from the International Association for Dance Medicine and Science (IADMS). It is a document on pointe readiness: () IADMS recommends age 12 but acknowledges that growth rates, maturity, and physical readiness are all relevant factors and vary from child to child. Growth from age 9 to age 12 and the changes occurring in the body are considerable. My thoughts turn to a former student of mine who was within that age range when she came back from a summer break inches taller, longer limbed, and working with an entirely new body.
She would not have been prepared for pointe upon her return. She was looking quite strong the spring before but hadn’t the strength now to control her longer limbs. She had to learn to work in her new body. I am no expert, I am no physiotherapist – I recommend consulting people who are. In my personal opinion benefits to an early start at age 9 do not outweigh any risks involved, even if they are minimal.
Waiting another year or two will only give her more time to prepare and refine her strength and technique, waiting won’t even put her behind other students. Omer, Your daughter’s teacher is probably in a better position to know than most teachers, but I’d still recommend taking her to a podiatrist who works with ballet dancers, and possibly a physiotherapist. While the teacher can see and tell whether or not her muscles are ready (and this is an important part of what teachers do at this stage), it takes an x-ray to see the development of the small bones of the feet. That’s why the podiatrist needs to know what the development should be before working on pointe. My own daughter’s teacher is now working on her master’s in pedagogy through the Vaganova Academy, but this is an area which is covered in the basic certification.
The girl I mentioned earlier was tremendously strong and light, and in fact sounds very like your daughter. But the bones in her feet were still soft, and going en pointe would have risked having the pressure of it bending the bones and crippling her. Her mom monitored her very carefully, having her feet x-rayed every few months, and then every couple of weeks as both the Nutcracker and the international competition loomed. Her feet were finally strong enough just a couple of weeks before the first performance. She took it very easy despite that. There are some excellent observations made in these comments.
Here are a few of my own, based on as yet *limited* experience with young students undertaking beginning pointe work. First, when my school opened its doors in 2006, several kids from other area schools appeared at my threshold, wishing to take entire technique classes wearing pointe shoes.
They were UNEQUICVOCALLY too weak for this. I consulted with Mignon Furman, who was kind enough to write out her thoughts on this practice; her letter hangs in a frame in my office. In a nutshell, what she said was, NO. She of course elaborated on this point, but her advice helped me a great deal, as I could simply refer to her letter when confronted with pushy moms or their kids who felt entitled to engage in pointe work against my advice. Ultimatley they either listened or left the school. Now that the school has started growing its own legs, so to speak, I have a younger population entering a second year of exposure to American Ballet Theatre’s National Training Curriculum; the Level 3-A class is untertaking beginning pointe this year. Pointe readiness received much discussion at the NTC training last summer, and even moreso this past summer at the Level 4-5 training.
Our mentor and co-creator of the curriculum, Raymond Lukens, had this to say last year: 1) Contrary to what we’ve all been told, there is no substantiated scientific evidence that starting pointe earlier than age 11 is necessarily harmful to a developing foot. 2) Having said that, age 11 is often an ideal age to introduce beginning pointe work. 3) If you can wait until age 12, that’s even better.
This past summer at the NTC Level 4-5 training, four girls from the JKO School Level 4 class gave an hour-long pointe demonstration–roughly a half-hour at barre, and a half-hour in centre floor. They were strong and lovely, and dancing well within the confines of what was developmentally appropriate for them. They were ages 13 and 14, but one of them told us that she had been a Level 4 student for 2-and-a-half years. The focus of the NTC is slow, careful technique building. Pointe is introduced in Level 3 of the NTC, but it is very, very simple work given facing the barre, over both feet.
Care is also taken to avoid a slow releve and a slow descent until the child is strong, because of the stress this places on the Achilles. Pre-pointe exercises are introduced in Level 1 of the NTC, and are designed to build strength in the feet, ankles, calves, knees, and anterior tibialis muscles.
My own students get a LOT of work addressing strength-building in these areas. I am confident that my Level 3 girls–ages 11, 12, and 15–will do just fine this year in their half-hour weekly pointe class, and the 9-year-old among them will continue to work on three-quarters pointe in her demi-pointe shoes; they attend technique classes twice-weekly for an hour-and-a-half, and Pilates once-weekly for more intense strength-buildling in the core musculature. (Note: my 15-year-old student came to me two years ago from another school, where she had been allowed to work incorrectly on pointe for some time. I was shocked: not only was she too weak, but also suffered from EXTREME hypermobility in the knees, and also subluxation of the kneecaps. The first thing I did was get her out of her pointe shoes. In the intervening years I have focused on helping her learn to stand and work correctly with those noodly legs and knees, making sure the heels are always together in first position, and to work doggedly on strengthening the knees; I allowed her to begin very basic pointe work second semester last year for fifteen minutes at the end of each technique class.
She is working so beautifully now, and I could not be more pleased and proud of her for being willing to wait and take things slowly.) About the shoes. Well, there is of course so much to be said. When I look at my own experience with pointe work as a young student, I am frankly pretty horrified.
I distinctly remember my mom (who was at the time dancing professionally) arguing with my teacher that I should NOT be allowed to undertake pointe yet. I was nine, and lobbied vigorously with my teacher to be allowed to start. In the end, my teacher and I won the arguement, my mom relented, and I began–way too soon.
I started in clunky Capezio Niccolinis, and eventually later used both Freeds and Gambas, as my mom favored them. I was NEVER allowed to use any kind of cushioning because of mom’s old-school philospshy, which had been handed down to her directly from Celia Franca and Betty Oliphant at the Nat’l Ballet School of Canada. So I spent years with horribly blistered feet and bruised toenails.
I look back on those days and think that at least SOME kind of cushioning would have helped, as well as shoes that had been fitted professionally. In short, I think the agony was avoidable (and I never pass up an opportunity to tell my mom so). Now that I have been through the fitter training at Gaynor Minden, I must say I am very impressed with the product there and wish like heck those shoes had been available during my dancing days. I’ve been using them myself since 2006, and have now started fitting my own students in them. For a beginning student, they offer more stability than any shoe I’ve had experience with. I also like the profile of the shoe–it is distinctly “un-clunky.” Unlike traditional shoes, there is no breaking in–the shoe does not change when you begin to work in it.
There are six variables used in fitting the shoe (and five different shank strengths), so a properly fitted G-M is very close to a custom fit. I personally am not against using the Ouch Pouch Jr (or better still, the new professional version, which has no bottom), but using this or any other kind of padding must be taken into account in the fitting of the shoe. And G-M has a kit consisting of tiny, variously shaped cushions that may be applied in the bottom of the box to address particular trouble spots–for example, the outside edge of the big toenail, which may need a little extra attention. Having said all that, I am still a newbie when it comes to fitting others in pointe shoes, and I’m sure my own opinions will evolve over time. I appreciate all the advice and comments here.
Great post as always, Nichelle. Actually the closest you can get to a custom fit pointeshoe is one that is made from a water based paste. This type of paste can be found in some pointeshoes manufactured by Freed, Bloch, Capezio, Suffolk and Gamba. Im sure there are other brands, but I dont know the paste make up to confirm. A pointeshoe that is constructed with a water based paste will start to return to a semi paste like state (a little like a very hard playdough) as the dancers sweats. This allows the box of the shoe to conform to the contours of the dancers foot inside.
Once this transformation has taken place the idea is to dry out the shoe and paint shellac inside the box to water proof the shoe and prevent further degradation of the paste. Many people think that shellac strengthens a pointeshoe. What it really does is water proof a shoe made from water based paste and makes sure it keeps its strength and maintains the custom shape of the dancers foot. Very often when I have fit professional dancers you can see the exact shape of their toes impressed inside the box of the shoe. This is what happens when the correct type of shoe is managed the correct way and it really is the closest thing available to a custom shoe. Gaynor Mindens boxes (and shanks) are made from plastic. So there is no opportunity to get a custom conformation of the toes.
They compensate for this by having a layer of foam in between the box and the foot, which is not unlike wearing a toe pad. Tim The shoes I fit are Russian and they are made with a starch glue (which is edible) I only will fit the one brand of shoe because I also can usually get a good snug custom fit for that exact reason, as the foot warms the glue softens and gives slightly.
I also see the complete inprint of the foot inside the shoe after wear, this is why I will not allow shoes to be swapped onto different feet as some dancers are told to do. I will not put down any make of shoe as it is not my speciality but I do take a lot of dancers who come to me out of a plastic backed shoe. I find that they are far more lacking in foot strength as they do not have to “break in” the shoe at demi pointe. Although breaking in a shoe is a tedious procedure for some dancers, it does me they gain intrinsic muscle strength (essential for good strong pointe work) also that the shoe breaks at exactly the correct point for their foot. I have many girls come to me with those shoes who have shoes way too big. I always thoroughly examine the bottom of each dancers shoes, they tell me the history of that shoe, if its too big, can they get over the box,rolling in or rolling out and much more.They may be good when a dancer has completed her training and knows exactly how to use her shoes and feet, but for a young dancer this is an important part of acquiring pointe work skills.
For me a dancer needs to have more time handed to her for a shoe fitting, that way the right vamp length, box shape, shank strength can all be found. I am lucky enough to only fit pointe shoes and so I can spend 1 hour minimum sometimes 2 with each dancer on a first fit. You can never get the perfect results until a dancer has danced in the shoe, she can then give me her feedback,(for this reason also maturity is needed when doing pointe work) if its all OK then great, if not then my work starts, do I need to reduce vamps, change roll thro strengths etc.
All of which are open for me to do by my manufacturers in Moscow for a tiny fee. A pointe shoe needs to breathe then hung up and be dried after use otherwise the shoe breaks down and rots.Look after your shoes and they will last you well. You cannot do this with a plastic shoe.
I know when a girl enters my home if she has a plastic shoe in her bag as I can smell them LOL, also I wonder in this age of recycling where these shoes standare they eco friendly. There are many plastic shoes on the market, so please don not in anyway think I am putting down any one particular brand. I can only go on what each individual dancer presents to me during a fitting, but for me nothing can beat a handmade shoe made to traditional methods. Id love to hear your opinion on some of the pointe brands.
I say let it out, and they can all learn from constructive criticism. Most of the pointeshoes Ive designed are for Bloch. Some of them are listed on my website. One of my favourite products is the Alpha pointshoe. After fitting 80 girls in the Royal Danish Ballet and School and hearing the 80th request to make the outsole shorter, I thought we needed to try something new. It was designed, and a dancer in the Australian Ballet (now my wife:)) spent 18 months testing it until we were happy to release it to the market.
Whats your website address? By the shorter outsole, do you mean a 3/4 shanked shoe instead of a full shank? We at Grishko have been using this very shank for a long time with the 2007 shoe very succesfullyI have now looked up the shoe on Bloch website.I like it, you also have a nice vamp and shoe shape, may I please ask how high the box is on it??? I find the problem with many shoes is the lack of height in the box, the metatarsal heads cannot then be safely encased in the shoe, thus causing bulging and an incorrect weight balance happens. This usually means an inability to push right over the box correctly, or damage to the me.
In the meantime, Lawless is chased between universes by multiverse policemen Harry roedecker (delroy Lindo) and Evan Funsch (Jason Statham) along with local Los Angeles police in their attempt to stop this multiverse serial killer. Sci-fi and kung fu fans will find lots of “stuff blows up,” as one film fan says. Murdoch Mysteries is a Canadian drama series produced by Shaftesbury Films. It was developed by R.B. Carney, Cal Coons, and Alexandra Zarowny and based on the. It was peopled by young Latino couples in love, and there was a Mariachi band playing Cielito Lindo (My Pretty Little Heaven). Fresh red and yellow tulips graced each table and the food was fresh and well seasoned. Raz liked Mexican food and he more delicately devoured his food. The girls asked about his early years.
Contents • • • • • • • • Victims [ ] Vicki Gail Purdy [ ] The first victim was Vicki Gail Purdy, 25, a military spouse of Gary Purdy, an army helicopter pilot. She had left to go in on May 29, 1985 but failed to meet her friends. She was last seen by the taxi driver who drove her to the Shorebird Hotel at 12:00 am, apparently to retrieve her car, which was later found in the hotel parking lot. The next morning her body was found in an embankment at Keehi Lagoon, wearing her yellow jumpsuit. Her hands were bound behind her back, and she had been raped and strangled. Her husband told police he suspected her death to be associated with her job, working at a video rental store that also handled, where two women were stabbed to death a year earlier.
Regina Sakamoto [ ] The second victim was Regina Sakamoto, 17, of Leilehua High School. She had missed her bus from to school on January 14, 1986 and was last heard from by her boyfriend at 7:15 am when she called to tell him she would be late. On January 15 her body was found at Keehi Lagoon wearing her blue tank top and white sweatshirt but her lower body was unclothed.
Her hands bound behind her back, she had been raped and strangled. She was planning on attending Hawaii Pacific University in the fall.
This second case led police to suspect the same killer as the first because of the same. Denise Hughes [ ] The third victim was Denise Hughes, 21, a for a who commuted by bus and was active in her Christian church. She did not show up to work on January 30, and was found dead in by three young fishermen on February 1. Her decomposing body was clothed in a blue dress, wrapped in a blue, and with her hands bound. She had been sexually assaulted and strangled. Prompted by a third body, a serial killer taskforce was established on February 5.
Louise Medeiros [ ] The fourth victim was Louise Medeiros, 25. She lived in Waipahu but had gone to to meet her extended family because of the death of her mother. Medeiros took a back to Oahu on March 26 and told her family she would get home by bus from the airport.
She disembarked the airplane and disappeared. Her decomposing body was found April 2 near Waikele stream. She was wearing her blouse but her lower body was unclothed, and her hands were bound behind her back. Police set up using policewomen around Keehi Lagoon and the.
Linda Pesce [ ] The fifth and last known victim of the Honolulu Strangler was Linda Pesce, 36. According to her roommate she left home on the morning of April 29 and was expected to be home late that evening, due to a pre-scheduled work meeting. The next morning, after being told that Linda had not shown up for work and that her car was parked on the side of the - viaduct, her roommate reported her missing. A Caucasian man, 43, told police a told him a body was.
On May 3, the informant took police to an exact location, but was wrong. Police searched the island and found Pesce's body.
She was nude, her hands bound behind her back. Investigation [ ] The had established a 27-person serial killer taskforce on February 5 with help from the and the taskforce. The killer's profile was of an opportunist who attacked women who were vulnerable, such as at bus stops, not one who stalks his victims. He also likely lives or works in the area of the attacks, Waipahu or Sand Island.
Police set up roadblocks at the time of the Pesce murder to question frequent commuters. Witnesses came forward saying they had seen a light colored van and a Caucasian or man with Pesce's car. Following the discovery of Pesce's body, police arrested the informant on May 9 as the primary suspect. The suspect's ex-wife and girlfriend described him as a smooth talker. They also provided a potentially incriminating clue, as both recalled engaging in activity, allowing him to tie them up and have sex with their hands bound behind their back. His girlfriend related that on nights after they had fought, he would leave the house, and that these were the same nights as the murders.
The suspect lived in Ewa Beach and worked as a mechanic at one of the air freight along Lagoon Drive. Between 8:00 p.m. And 3:00 a.m.
The suspect was interrogated, failed a and was eventually released. Police followed the suspect and a $25,000 reward for information was put out by private businesses. Two months after the arrest of the suspect, a woman came forward and claimed she saw Pesce with a man on the night of her murder. She successfully picked the suspect out of a photo lineup as the man. She did not want to be a witness because she believed he saw her as well.
References [ ].
Photo NBC Yesterday’s episode of “Baggage” was another excellent show. I always worry when the show over-hypes the guest stars that the stars will cause the story to suffer. In this case, Delroy Lindo did a perfect job as a man so obsessed with a case that he’s lost all sight of it. At the same time, he also has his daughter to worry about, who is hospitalized in a coma from a car accident that also took the life of his wife. I have to say that the ending of this episode made me feel so incredibly sad, and it brought a tear to my eye. This rarely happens with any show in the Law & Order franchise. I must admit that I did not miss Mariska Hargitay one bit.
I am sure this is not something she would want to hear, seeing that The regulars were also very strong in this episode, with Chris Meloni playing the territorial act to perfection, and Munch and Fin providing their usual steady support. There was very little humor if any in the episode – Munch’s short rant about his issues with how the DNA is used to identify family members came the closest to a lighter moment. Considering that the case involved such brutal murders, and with Cragen under attack by the new Chief of Detectives, along with Moran’s comatose daughter, humor would have been not only inappropriate, but it would have completely busted the somber mood of the entire episode.
There was one section that gave me pause. It was the scenes where Fin gets a call at the squad saying that a suspect is being chased, and then we see Stabler and Fin right on the scene joining in an apprehending the suspect.
Now really, how lucky were they that they suspect was being chased so close to the SVU squad that the detectives could get there before anyone else could – especially considering New York City traffic? I found that very hard to fathom. It seems that the whole issue with the leak was dropped - at least for now. I suspect that the issue will come up in some later episode.
All in all, this episode was one of SVU’s best! Here is the recap: A man and a woman are going up in an elevator. While the woman talks about some artwork, the man comes on to her. As they enter the apartment of her friend Casey Chapman, they see her there, dead on a table. Later, with forensics on the scene with Detectives Stabler (Chris Meloni) and Fin (Ice-T), we find out that Chapman is an up and coming ceramics artist. There is no sign of forced entry, and she was tortured and hog-tied, with what looks like a scald burn. It also seems that the killer is a repeater.
In the morgue, ME Warner (Tamara Tunie) says the victim was strangled and there were some fractures. But she can’t confirm she was hog-tied like the previous, similar victim. They were similarities in that both victims had their mouths glued shut, and both hyoids were broken. The new victim wasn’t sexually assaulted and the killer used more glue to seal her rectum than with the previous victim. Back at the squad, they try to determine the similarities in both cases, but the latter may be a copycat – or two guys.
April Silva was the first victim, she was raped, but not Casey Chapman. Chapman was an artist, Silva, a post grad math student. The only similarities is that they lived in Harlem.
As they discuss the case, Detective Victor Moran (Delroy Lindo) from Major Crimes enters. He tells them that there are other similar crimes – there are 5 dead, all hog tied with their mouths glued shut. These other crimes happened outside of Harlem. Stabler wondered why, when he ran the cases through VICAP that the cases never came up, and Moran said he blocked their access. Fin calls him a “glory hog” but he says it’s not about him, it’s about the victims, and he didn’t want anyone in his way.
Moran says the case is his, and the Chief of Ds is in with the captain right now. Cragen’s (Dann Florek) office, Cragen tells the Chief of Detectives (John Ashton) that his squad can handle the case, and he counters that he knows Moran can close it. “You just got promoted and your first order as Chief of Detectives is to bend me over my desk?
“ He answers that this is no reflection on his squad, but Moran knows the case and it’s the only one on his case. In the squad room, Moran tells them he knows more than they do. But Munch (Richard Belzer) tells him that serial killers usually stay within their ethnic group, Moran thinks the killer is a black Latino male but the victims are white. Moran counters that the killer is targeting minority areas. The Chief of D’s exits Cragen’s office, telling him to give Moran what he needs and stay out of his way. We later see Stabler throwing a box of files on a table on which Moran is leaning, and Moran asks him if he feels better.
Stabler says not if he is using those victims to get a gold star. He asked what stalled Moran’s career – did he stop being a team player about a year ago? Moran says he’s better by himself. They continue to argue the reason for Moran to handle the case, ending with Moran telling Stabler he’d like some privacy. Back in the squad room, Fin tells him he has a potential witness on the Chapman murder, Debra Huggins, who lives one floor below Chapman. Stabler tells Fin to keep Moran occupied, he just doesn’t want to roll over and play dead just yet.
Fin approaches Moran in the other room, who asks where is Stabler. Fin tells him he needed a break. Fin decides to throw Moran a bone and tells him that Silva’s parents didn’t know she had a girlfriend – she was Catholic – and she was into kink. Munch says there were no matches to the pubic hairs found, and Moran is frustrated, thinking the killer should be in the system. Fin suggests to widen the search with familial DNA, and he barks for Munch to just do it. Fin tells Moran he’s been in the way since he got there. Stabler arrives at the home of Debra Huggins, who says she did not know Casey Chapman well.
She saw a man waiting for the elevator when she came home, and he was wearing maintenance clothes with no company or name patches. He was black, mid to late 20s, 5’10”, lanky build, and he had no toolbox.
She asked him where he was going and he did not answer. He asks her to come down to talk to a sketch artist. Back at the squad, they have no solid leads from the sketch. Cragen asks were is Moran, and Stabler tells him Moran left with the files. Fin tells them someone matching the sketch is being chased by a group of young men out for blood, and Stabler and Fin give chase.
They catch up in their car with the gang who is beating up the suspect, and they break it up. One of the kids says he saw the sketch and saw the man going into the building where his nana lives. The kid found lock picks the suspect dropped on the street. As Stabler tells the police officer to cuff him and bring him in, the suspect thanks Stabler for saving his life. In interrogation, Fin and Stabler question the suspect - Stefan Henriquez (Victor Anthony)– about the murders. They portray him as a violent man with a violent temper, they have a witness and they have DNA and he denies doing anything. He says he always wears gloves, and when Stabler says of course he does, he’s not stupid, Stefan says he didn’t mean that and he thinks he wants a lawyer.
He says he is getting a raw deal, and he is getting very rattled, asks them not to touch him. Stabler holds him down off the table and tells him to get off of him. Fin says they are going to need a mop, as Stefan seems to have wet himself. As Stabler and Fin leave the interrogation room, Cragen asks, “What the hell was that?” Stabler tells him the social worker put it in his file, and they figured stick first, carrot later. But Cragen says that’s not his grounds for an assault charge while he is in custody.
Fin says he’d like to see his lawyers try, but when Cragen says he did ask for one, Cabot reminds him that thinking of needing one and asking for one is debatable. She says he’s an idiot, but is he guilty? She can’ reconcile “that jellyfish” with the brutal murders. Stabler thinks he’s a killer, and Fin thinks he’s just getting started.
Cabot would like to indict but with more evidence, and when Stabler asks what she needs, she tells him to find the murder kit and that will bury him. But Munch enters, saying the suspect may not be the only one getting buried – the Chief of Detectives has returned - and he is upset. He says he thought he took them off the case, and Cragen said they had a lead and they ran it. The Chief of Ds said the press blindsided him about a serial killer being lose in the city and the DNA left behind, and Cragen indicated they have a leak. The Chief of Ds gets in Cragen’s face and tells Cragen, “C’mon.
You’re pissed off. This is SVU grandstanding. And now you got a pooch-screw.” Cragen responds that it is anything but, and they have a suspect in custody. When the Chief of Ds asks if he confessed, and when Fin says they are still talking to him, The Chief of Ds say this means no. Stabler says they will get it done, and the Chief gets in his face, saying that Stabler didn’t know about the other victims until Moran set them straight, and he linked those cases together on his own time – with a kid in the hospital. Fin asks what the Chief wants them to do, and he says to bring him up to speed and mind their own damn business. After the Chief leaves, Cragen tells them to finish the interrogation and to transport the suspect when they are done.
Stabler says that the Chief will take Cragen’s command, maybe even his badge. Cragen says only if they do not close the case – all One PP cares about is results – never forget that.
When Fin and Stabler return to the interrogation room, at first they think Stefan is gone, but then they find him on the floor, bleeding from a self inflicted wound. He apparently had tools hidden in his belt that were not caught when he was searched. As Fin goes to call for a bus, Stefan tells Stabler he didn't mean to hurt anybody.
Later, the EMTs arrive and take Stefan away, Fin going to the hospital with him, and Stabler says he called Major Crimes and Moran is already had the hospital and he will call him. Fin tells him to tell Moran that Stefan confessed. At Mercy General Hospital, Stabler arrives, seeing Moran there with his daughter, who has been there for over 5 months.
His wife was leaving him because he was working too much on the case, and she took their daughter Joy and left, and they were in a car accident. His wife was killed on impact, Joy smashed her skull on the window. Stabler says solving the case will not bring his family back, and he is obsessed with the case. Stabler continues to get on him about it, and thinks that there needs to be fresh eyes on the case. Moran asks him what he has, and Stabler tells him they have a suspect, Stefan Henriquez, in custody. Moran wants to know if he was trying to cut him out of this, and Stabler says he didn’t give them much of an option.
Moran accuses him of leaking DNA evidence to the press, which Stabler denies anyone on the squad did that. Moran gets a message, and tells Stabler there is a problem with his suspect – there is another body.
At the latest crime scene, there appears to have been a fire, but a piece of rope remains and it seems the victim may have been hog-tied. Stabler asks for a time of death, and Warner says she will do her best. Moran thinks she was set on fire to cover the DNA because it was mentioned on the evening news that they had DNA. Back at the squad, Cragen tells the Chief of Ds that it seems this latest victim’s murder happened when Stefan was in custody. They also have no information on who leaked information to the press, it could have been from up to 20-30 people.
But Moran says Stefan is not the killer, he was just a burglar and victim, and old man, fought him and died of a heart attack The Chief says the squad screwed it up, but Moran defends them and asks to continue to work with them and the Chief agrees and leaves. Cragen asks Moran if he saw the light, and he says maybe. Cragen tells him he is not a team player, and he’ll have his ass if he holds anything else back. Back in the squad room, Stabler looks over the victims’ photographs. He tells Moran that the victims are all the same age but racially, socially, and professionally diverse.
But Stabler tells him to look at the victims that were not assaulted. One had her hair dyed, and the killer would not have known that until he unclothed her. Fin said another had “new boobs” - and Stabler says that the killer is a purist; if the women are not natural he won’t rape them, and he glues them shut. Moran says the profile has now changed, the killer is likely someone in their 40s, and they think the man has been raping for decades.
Munch tells them that familial DNA comes back to Angela Ocurro, Tyrone Beckwith, and David Paige. At a party rental place, Munch and Fin talk to Paige, and ask him if he has any brothers, and he says his brother never killed anyone, and he buried him months ago.
Stabler and Moran speak with Ocurro, and she resists helping them until Stabler brings out the cuffs, she agrees to give them information on her 4 brothers. In jail, Cragen speaks with Beckwith, and he says he has a brother, Lance Corporal Tyrese Beckwith.
Back at the squad, Cragen says Beckwith is on active duty in Afghanistan, and has had no leave in a year. Paige OD’d last summer. This leaves Luke, Mark, John, and James Ocurro. John can’t be located, James is in rehab, Luke lives in North Carolina is a farmer, and Mark works for the airline. Moran asks for them to bring up the last crime scene photos, and he looks for baggage – which he sees in the picture. They realize that all the victims had just come back from trips. Mark Ocurro is a deliveryman who returns lost luggage.
At an apartment, we see Mark Ocurro (Nelson Vasquez) at the door, telling a woman they found her lost luggage. The suitcase is heavy so he walks it into the apartment to the bedroom as she asked. As they walk to the bedroom he begins to attack her, but Stabler is already there and gets a gun on Ocurro and as she cuff him, Stabler reads him his rights. Outside, Moran has searched Ocurro’s van, and found the mother lode – rope, gloves, condoms, with a list and all the female names circled. In interrogation, Stabler and Moran question Ocurro about all the murders. When they show him the photos, he said he doesn’t recognize the women.
They run through the scenarios of how he murders and poses the victims. They tell him they are searching his apartment. Ocurro asks for a lawyer – now.
Meanwhile, Munch and Fin are searching the apartment, and Munch finds a bunch of books on homicide and autopsy textbooks. Munch also notices the wire hanging some pictures on a wall are twisted in a very peculiar way, saying an obsessive compulsive like Ocurro would never tolerate that. They turn the pictures backwards and look behind them and find magazine cover pictures of women who have been hog-tied. Back in interrogation, Ocurro is there with his attorney Patrice Larue (Jeri Ryan) and she says a lot of people collect those magazines. But, they tell her about the DNA matches, Stabler telling Ocurro he is screwed.
At the Supreme Court pre-trial hearing, ADA Cabot (Stephanie March) outlines the charges to Judge Petrovsky (Joanna Merlin). Saying the victim bondage method for all six murder is the same. The defense attorney Larue argues that he used the bathrooms in those cases, which could have transferred the pubic hairs, but there are no prints there because he didn’t wash his hands. But Cabot argues that they found gloves in his van as part of his “murder kit” which included rope, latex, and glue. The Larue argues all those things are used to repair damaged luggage, but Cabot argues that the condoms can’t be used for that. Larue says the condoms were in the glove compartment, and they should assume he is just sexually active. She also says that they have a witness who says Ocurro never left the house at the time of Chapman’s death – his mother Elena Ocurro – and her bridge club.
The judge says that if the defendant’s alibi is verified then the linkage between all six cases is broken and she will have to dismiss. Later, Stabler and Moran talk to Elena Occuro, and she says knows nothing about those murders, Mark called out of the blue and asked to come over She doesn’t like her own son, which is why she called the bridge club to come over. She says he once tied a cat to a bus – and that her son is a mistake.
He did not leave his apartment the whole day and she could not wait for him to leave. As Moran walks off, he tells Stabler than Ocurro planned this and he had to create this alibi – and also thinks that they are basing the time of death on Warner’s calculation which could be wrong. At the ME's, she tells them she could have been a few hours off but not a whole day.
When Stabler asks if Ocurro could have accelerated the process, she tells him extreme heat or water would have done that, but there was evidence of neither. Moran asked what if he had turned the heat up, and she said residential heating wouldn’t do it. But Stabler wonders about a kiln.
Back at Casey Chapman’s home, they look at the large kiln. It takes 8-10 hours to get hot, but twice that long to cool off. Cragen wonder that Ocurro opened the window because it was still hot. There are no prints on the kiln, but Fin tells them that the power company confirmed that Chapman’s kilowatt hours doubled the day of her murder.
Moran says that this means Chapman was killed on Monday night, not Sunday when he was with his mother, and Ocurro turned on the kiln to accelerate the decomp, causing an inaccurate time of death. Cragen tells them to pick him up. At the airlines claim area, they go to pick up Ocurro, but his is out making deliveries. They ask the manager to print the delivery list, and they ask him to call Ocurro on the cell phone and tell him he has some wrong luggage and to come back, but the cell phone goes to voice mail. Stabler and Moran suspect that Ocurro is readying for a kill.
Moran tells him that they should look only for redheads, as that was the next order on the magazine covers that Ocurro had in his apartment. Fin is back at the squad, looking at the driver’s license pictures of the women on the list, reading the information to Stabler on the phone. They zero in on red-headed Vicki Hennegan, and they get to her apartment and catch Ocurro in the act. Moran cuffs Ocurro, and then begins to kick him.
Stabler tries to get him to stop, saying they don’t need to give him a reason to walk. When Stabler tells Moran it’s over, he answers that is what he is afraid of. Back at Mercy General Hospital, Moran is in the hallway waiting. His daughter is in surgery, but Moran says it’s a good thing. Stabler tells him that Ocurro confessed to a few other homicides in the Dominican Republic.
A doctor comes out and asks Moran if he wants to see Joy, and he does. A person exits the room with a cooler that held lungs for transplant, and then more people come out with other coolers with more organs.
Stabler realizes that Joy’s organs were taken for transplant, and a somber look comes over his face as he looks on the sad face of Moran. Stabler says he is very sorry, but Moran says it is a second chance – everyone needs one.
As Moran walks into the room to look upon his daughter, Stabler looks on, and we fade to black. Two Minute Replay Baggage All Text Content (Recaps, Review, Commentary) © unless otherwise noted Check out my blog home page for the latest Law & Order information, on Also, see my companion Law & Order site. Thank you very much. I know how tedious the process is, which is why I'm trying to ask for the essentials.
To answer your question, I use your transcripts as discussion and debate fodder for my Law & Order messageboards. You're credited accordingly, of course. I no longer have a working VCR (as I usually tape) and I can't use the internet to access a copy (bandwidth issues and I have a malfunctionaling computer). Since you do a very thorough recap, you're a good person to ask, outside my usual source. So, there's my answer. I know it's a courtesy you don't have to give me, so no worries if you wish to stop. But I'm incredibly grateful for all the transcripts you've done for me.
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Contents • • • • • • • • • Etymology [ ] The modern English noun phoenix derives from phenix (before 1150), itself from fēnix (around 750). Old English fēnix was borrowed from Medieval Latin phenix, which is derived from Classical Latin phoenīx. The Classical Latin phoenīx represents Greek φοῖνιξ phoinīx.
In ancient Greece and Rome, the bird, phoenix, was sometimes associated with the similar-sounding, a civilization famous for its production of purple dye from conch shells. A late antique etymology offered by the 6th- and 7th-century CE archbishop accordingly derives the name of the phoenix from its allegedly purple-red hue. Because the costly purple dye from Phoenicia was associated with the upper classes in antiquity and, later, with royalty, in the medieval period the phoenix was considered 'the royal bird'. In spite of these, with the deciphering of the script in the 20th century, the original Greek φοῖνιξ was decisively shown to be derived from po-ni-ke, itself open to a variety of interpretations.
Relation to the Egyptian Bennu [ ] Classical discourse on the subject of the phoenix points to a potential origin of the phoenix in. In the 19th century scholastic suspicions appeared to be confirmed by the discovery that Egyptians in had venerated the, a solar bird observed in some respects to be similar to the Greek phoenix. However, the Egyptian sources regarding the bennu are often problematic and open to a variety of interpretations. Some of these sources may have actually been influenced by Greek notions of the phoenix, rather than the other way around., writing in the 5th century BC, gives a somewhat skeptical account of the phoenix: '[The Egyptians] have also another sacred bird called the phoenix which I myself have never seen, except in pictures. Indeed it is a great rarity, even in Egypt, only coming there (according to the accounts of the people of Heliopolis) once in five hundred years, when the old phoenix dies. Its size and appearance, if it is like the pictures, are as follow:- The plumage is partly red, partly golden, while the general make and size are almost exactly that of the eagle.
They tell a story of what this bird does, which does not seem to me to be credible: that he comes all the way from Arabia, and brings the parent bird, all plastered over with myrrh, to the temple of the Sun, and there buries the body. In order to bring him, they say, he first forms a ball of myrrh as big as he finds that he can carry; then he hollows out the ball, and puts his parent inside, after which he covers over the opening with fresh myrrh, and the ball is then of exactly the same weight as at first; so he brings it to Egypt, plastered over as I have said, and deposits it in the temple of the Sun. Such is the story they tell of the doings of this bird.' Appearance [ ].
Detail from the 12th century, featuring a phoenix The phoenix is sometimes pictured in ancient and medieval literature and medieval art as endowed with a, which emphasizes the bird's connection with the Sun. In the oldest images of phoenixes on record these nimbuses often have seven rays, like (the personified sun of ). Pliny the Elder also describes the bird as having a crest of feathers on its head, and compared it to a rooster. Although the phoenix was generally believed to be colorful and vibrant, sources provide no clear consensus about its coloration. Says that its color made it stand out from all other birds. Some said that the bird had peacock-like coloring, and 's claim of red and yellow is popular in many versions of the story on record.
Ezekiel the Dramatist declared that the phoenix had red legs and striking yellow eyes, but said that its eyes were blue like sapphires and that its legs were covered in scales of yellow-gold with rose-colored talons. Herodotus, Pliny,, and describe the phoenix as similar in size to an eagle, but Lactantius and Ezekiel the Dramatist both claim that the phoenix was larger, with Lactantius declaring that it was even larger than an ostrich. In later European culture [ ] refers to the phoenix in Canto XXIV.
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Armstrong Alto Sax - Armstrong Alto Sax Serial Number - 29 34510 Made in Elkhart, Indiana SOLD Are you thinking of renting a sax for your student? Frankly, I don't know what it costs to rent an alto sax.$35 a month? Lessee.$35 x 9 = $315 This sax costs $275. If it comes down to it you should be able to resell this puppy if your student goes either way.either gets serious and wants an intermediate sax or decides to 'pursue other interests'.
Photos are normally essential to ascertain value, but in this case, probably not that helpful. Without photos I can tell you this: the 3008A you refer to is not the serial number. That is the model number. This particular model has rolled tone holes and a high F#. Despite this, the horn is considered to be a student model,. I'm wondering on a rough base value how much its worth. It has 3 very light unnoticeable dents on the side of the bell all pads are brand new replace last march no bent rods no bent guards not bent or missing screws about 75% still original lacquer scratches and scraps only on top layer of lacquer neck is original not bent. Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /srv/users/serverpilot/apps/jujaitaly/public/index.php on line 447. Jan 23, 2008. I have a armstrong sax it says Armstrong Elkhart inc usa the serial number is n161880 its in very nice condition hardly a scratch that could be a model number I dunno Im hoping its vintage the case smells like it. Alto its nice looking thats all I know I dont play sax or any instruments Im just trying to idenify it.
It plays well. It has a mix of newer and older pads. Yes, some scratches and dents and lacquer wear.
Armstrong Alto Sax.
Armstrong 3010 Alto sax I'm a 52 year old beginner, and just purchased two used horns after a lifetime of wanting to play the sax. One is a Conn alto that I was told was made in the early to mid-1970s (does not have an M in the serial number, which I was told means it was made before production went to Mexico) and the other is an Armstrong 3010 alto. The Conn is in much better shape appearance-wise, while the Armstrong has some finish wear and a few very minor dings and scratches. But the Armstrong seems to have the better sound to my very untrained ear. Can anybody give me any info on the Armstrong model 3010 horns? I paid $250 for the Conn with case and goodies, and $100 for the Armstrong, with case.
The case looks like new and is marked Armstrong. I don't think I got hurt too badly on either horn to use as a raw beginner.
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Morse Code translator is the best tool for translating text into morse code and morse code into text. The tidy interface makes it easy to use and the variety of features makes it a powerful tool. The feature list includes: •Real-time translation •translate using the International Morse Code standard •translate both ways between morse code and text •you can use the flashlight to transmit morse code •the app also can give sound and vibration feedback •share button to easily share the text that was just converter. No difference between dots and dashes on the LED.
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